Training Example: THAT Conference – Review the Data, Give Your Score & Compare to the Real AI Evaluation

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After 15 incredible years of bringing together thousands of geeks, fostering community, and inspiring the next generation of technologists across the Midwest, we're taking a pause to reimagine THAT Conference. Since 2010, you've helped us prove that investing in Midwest tech was worth it—through 16 events, over 2000 sessions, and countless connections that extended far beyond those four days each year. While we won't be hosting THAT Conference, this isn't goodbye—it's a chance to evolve. The perfect storm of post-pandemic challenges means we need to step back, regroup, and design a sustainable path forward that stays true to our mission of inspiring, creating, and supporting our community. We're committed to finding new ways to bring people together, because we believe community matters now more than ever. Read Clark's full letter to the community. Join us In Slack Read More

[H1] THAT Blog
Home Blog It's time we took a pause.
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By Clark Sell Jan 14,2025 Community
[H2] It's time we took a pause.
Fifteen years ago, I sat down at a table at a bar here and started scribbling shit on a napkin. It was my vision of what THAT Conference would soon become and what so many of you here have embodied. Sixteen events, two states, over 2000 sessions, and tens of thousands of geeks have descended to all things THAT. At the start, I was told by so many tech in the Midwest that it just wasn’t worth investing in. You’ve helped me prove them wrong.
I wish what you’re about to read wasn’t something I had to write. It’s tough, but here goes.
In short, this year, 2025, 15 years after we dubbed all of this THAT, we do not have plans to host THAT Conference.
Now, let’s get into the details.
Simply put, we’ve not recovered since the pandemic. Over a year ago, the company went upside down, and that new reality meant we had to take out a loan to pay the event expenses. That said, we were bullish and just needed more time for things to come around. Unfortunately, in 2024, our costs continued to increase, but our attendance and sponsorship continued to decline. Since the pandemic, Carrie and I became the largest sponsor of THAT, and now we have a loan; we’re just leveraged too far.
Carrie and I have worked on THAT Conference daily (while having a day job) for as long as I can remember. Every year, it takes thousands of hours to make something like THAT, well, THAT. And yes, I’m going to keep on brand here ;)
But it has left us in a situation where hosting another event would mean a drastic change from what you know as THAT Conference. We must find another venue and format while creating space to get back on our feet and reimagine THAT.
Will there be another THAT Conference?
I believe so, and as I alluded to, it will be different, and it will not be at the Kalahari. I remember the first day I walked into the Kalahari and thought we’d never fill the place. Many years later, almost 2000 people filled the old convention center and the brand-new one. It’s hard to believe we’re packing up camp.
When I started THAT, my only goal was to help build the tech community here in the Midwest while exposing our kids to this wonderful world of tech. It sure wasn’t to create an event company; that was a necessary evil. Since before THAT, I’ve been an active community member, and we’ve always run THAT as a facility to grow people every day of the year. Many folks consider us just an event, but I argue, why bother with all the effort of amassing so many people if only to leverage it 4 days of the year?
Undoubtedly, our industry is/has been at a crossroads. With the layoffs, AI, and working from home, I think we’re in a bit of a tech revolution. When I look back over the past 20 years, the things that made conferences great were the people learning from people. Today, that’s drastically changed.
Looking forward, I keep returning to a few words: Inspire, Create, and Support. I truly believe how we work today will radically change in 5 years. As software engineers, we’re more than a leg ahead of most. Our ability to create solutions that create societal impact will happen much faster now than ever before.
So, how can I help support that with THAT? How must we evolve and become financially viable?
and, and, and, I still believe we need community now more than ever.
So what happened?
Maybe I’m the Pied Piper and lead us astray. Hindsight is 20/20, and without question, I’ve misstepped at a time or two, but I don’t think there is one item that’s led us here but rather the perfect storm of many.
The pandemic. It might be over, but its effects are still surfacing today.
User groups, Meetups, and Code Camps have all suffered since the pandemic. People just aren’t showing up.
Rather than pausing operations during the pandemic like most did, we went all in. We believed that was when you needed the community the most, but it also meant we burned up some of our company’s financial buffer.
Inflation, our expenses are crazy now. Four of the past six events have been upside down, and two have been flat. We tried to get creative with ticket pricing while being accessible to all, but without the attendance, we cannot get the sponsors, and we can’t offset the tickets. Given our current model, if those things are not in balance, it doesn’t work.
Companies de-invested in their employees, from time off to attend a conference to the educational budget.
Tech layoffs, hundred of thousands of people have been laid off. That’s led to an overall undertone contributing in ways we’ve never exeprienced.
Travel. Let’s be honest: The Dells is in the middle of nowhere. That’s both a good thing and a bad thing. In the end, it’s just more expensive to get there.
Hotel rooms got nutty expensive.
PE groups went around buying up things such as conferences, consulting companies, etc. In doing so, they’re doing their own thing, and that investment in the independent producer, such as me, went away.
We used to have 30+ sponsors at THAT, but we had half that during our last event.
Honestly, even the chatter here on Slack has slowly diminished to a few. We’ve tried many ways to engage, but I’m lost.
I could add more, but my point here was to illustrate the complex circumstances that exist. It’s not as simple as “raising ticket prices” or taking bacon off the menu.
Clark, what about you?
I know you didn’t ask but some may. I guess let’s call it rebuilding. If you’ve watched closely, I took a few months off from social media and just tried to collect my thoughts. Create some space to be inspired again. This has been building over the past few years, and it’s been challenging to navigate. I feel I’ve failed you and our community. I was the one driving THAT boat, and regardless of the situation, I navigated it wrong where others hadn’t. I’ve spent so much of my time on THAT Conference that I’ve neglected things like my health and Unspecified, which is technically my day job.
That’s not a cry for pity; I just want to keep it real.
It’s been too many years since I’ve created content and From Code To Clarity https://FromCodeToClarity.com where I am exploring developer health, purpose, community building, networking, and, let’s say, all of the nontechnical stuff in our technical lives.
Over the years, I’ve coached so many folks, and I’ve decided to formalize things by creating a coaching program called Coached by Clark. Creative I know. I just launched the site today, and while it’s unfinished, we’re just going to roll with it and refactor along the way.
At Unspecified, we’re going to focus on taking some of the tech we’ve built to support our operations and make it available to other event organizers and communities. More to come on that.
Lastly…
If you’re in the Madison area on January 25th, @RossLarson is hosting THAT Meetup at https://guild.host/events/that-meetup-z8ds6s. I hope to meet some of you there.
All the LoveClark, Carrie and Brett